MSIE 7 : Beter of slechter?

Microsoft Internet Explorer is een ECHTE RAMP als het standaarden betreft. Probeer maar met CSS en ik wens je goede moed. MSIE 7 zal nog meer in de war sturen, niet dat ze meer gericht op standaarden worden, enkel dat ze de bugs gaan anders omzeilen!

(lees dit in de context)

De volgende uitsparaken laten duidelijk zien dat Microsoft gewoon zijn voeten veegt aan webdesigners en gebruikers.

De volgende uitspraken komen van :
  Microsoft Expert Zone : Internet Explorer (February 9, 2006)

• Q: Will max/min-height/width will be implemented in final release of IE7?
• A: We knew that min/max-width/height would be even more important with the overflow changes. We're working hard to get it in to IE7, but we can't promise support for it just yet.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : max/min-height/width zijn zware problemen onder MSIE 6. Webdesigners verliezen dagen hierdoor. Dus voor deze belangrijke CSS Standaard, geen enkele belofte! Ik vind dit heel erg, zo een funktie zou er 'standaard' moeten inzitten en dat vanaf de éérste lijnen kode!

• Q: Why one IE7 window uses ~100mb of ram with tabs turned on and 30mb without?
• A: We are looking into several performace issue at this time. We appreciate your feedback and would love to help analyse the issue. Can you provide more details and perhaps a repro. Please send more details to the IETell@microsoft.com

PCTECHRES Commentaar : MS weet het niet! Vertaal door 'kun je het werk voor ons doen?'

• Q: ok here it is simple put up , Will IE7 have something like content blocker of opera or adlock extention of firefox?
• A: Hi alsladka, As with other browsers this type of functionality is available as an IE extension. As part of the work on IE7 you can expect us to be improving the discoverability of extensions to IE.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Wat basisfunktionaliteit zou moeten zijn zit in een 'uitbreiding'. Zie het punt hierboven, uitbreiding is NOG meer geheugen nodig!

• Q: I cleared "Always switch to new tabs" and selected "Always open pop-ups in new tab". Why on the Earth IE7 switches focus for newly opened pop-ups?
• A: Given the two options you selected, we will switch focus for popups. You might try blocking popups, or perhaps choosing the option to let IE decide whether to allow the popup or not, as that may result in only popups that you're actually interested in seeing. I take it you would rather that popups are the exception to the "always switch to new tabs" rule?

• Q: The thing that anooys me all the way: focus! Once I click a link in email, the IE window opens -- it's OK, I switch back to email. Then IE downloads the whole page and switches focus on its window. This is really annoying behaviour. Will this be fixed?
• A: wasker: I believe this is by design behavior in this scenario.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Grappig! Firefox doet dit van in het begin! Als ik rechtsklik op een link en vraag open in new tab, dan gebeurt dat op de achtergrond en ik kan mijn bladzijde blijven lezen. Bij MSIE 7 beland je automatisch op de nieuwe geopende tab! Wel, zoals reeds 20 jaar, Microsoft vindt hun nieuw geopend venster VEEL belangrijker dan het werk je aan het doen bent! Microsoft is toch VEEL belangrijker dan die enkele eindegebruiker, of niet?

• Q: how often becomes the IE fishing blacklist updates?
• A: The Anti-Phishing filter is a live back-end service. It is continually updated; that's why we have to send URLs up to the service, so the "black list" can be as up to date as possible.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Alle URL's of alleen deze die wij willen zenden? Ziet eruit als 'Big Brother is watching you'!

• Q: Good morning! I'd like to know how far you've come in realising CSS2 compatibility. I've seen in the Blog that it seems to be a pretty big priority for you guys. Could you also please elaborate on the 'strict mode in IE6' that I noticed mentioned in Blog.
• A: We are working hard on moving our CSS compliance forward. We added several CSS features and fixed inconsistencies. With any changes we introduce, even in the name of standards, we have to be aware of application compatability. For that reason IE6 introduced a <!Doctype> switch that allows IE to toggle between a backwards compatibility mode (quirks) and a compliant mode (strict). In strict we will change behavior to adhere to the standards. This might effect your sites so please test your pages using the public build of IE7 if your page is authored under a X/HTML strict doctype.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Ik heb al schrik als Microsoft zegt 'We added several CSS features'. In het algemeen wil dat zegen zaken die NIET VOORZIEN zijn in de standaard. MSIE extensies aan de standaard dus.

• Q: Considering how much of a win it would be for IE to equal or exceed its competitors in CSS compatibility, why is IE's CSS support not further along? Too difficult, not enough resources applied?
• A: We are working hard to improve our CSS support. We are 100% committed. We concentrated first on top pain points and additional CSS functionality like :hover on all elements not just body etc. before we added more features. Luckily we also got much requested features in like improved selector support and fixed positioning

PCTECHRES Commentaar : De woorden van Microsoft : We concentrated on additional CSS functionality! Dus geen of weinig oplossingen voor bestaande bugs.

• Q: Will there be any improvement with "Find On This Page". I would like "Find On This Page" to act similar to FF 1.5 or Adobe Acrobat. Find all items on the page and highlight them also similar to MSN Desktop Search toolbar.
• A: It was a great thing we worked on but had to cut it off due to the time schedule we had. Will consider it in the future release.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Wat blijft er dan over als alle 'goede' opties eruit geknipt worden?

• Q: 8-) Any plans to make your point as a definitive display engine by passing the Acid2 test?
• A: The Acid 2 test is not a goal for IE7, as I've detailed on our  blog, we have focused on eliminating the biggest problems webdevs face with our engine, and adding the most-requested features.
• Q: Is there any progress on being able to pass the Acid2 test similar to Safari and Konqueror or is that not a priority for Microsoft at this time?
• A: As blogged in July, not a priority for IE7 - we're focused on the biggest problems webdevs run in to with IE, and the most-requested features.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : MS durft de acid2 test blijkbaar niet aan!

Acid2 is a test page for web browsers published by  The Web Standards Project (WaSP). It has been written to help browser vendors make sure their products correctly support features that web designers would like to use. These features are part of existing standards but haven't been interoperably supported by major browsers. Acid2 tries to change this by challenging browsers to render Acid2 correctly before shipping.

• Q: Do you know that Google toolbar 4 doesn't work properly in IE7? It always disappears.
• A: Yes, we're aware that with the most recent beta released by google, there are issues with IE7. Thanks.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Toevalig? Wie had het tegendeel verwacht.

• Q: can you say to what extent will your layout behaviour be fixed or will the basic hasLayout behaviour remain the same. It's already causing new issues for CSS layouts
• A: We fixed several issues around relative positioning. Has layout is still used as an internal data structure. If you encounter a page that does not work as expected you can try zoom 100% to force Layout (height 1% will not work anymore since we fixed our overflow behavior). We hope we fixed the majority of pain points so HasLayout does not have to be used that often anymore.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Nog altijd dezelfde motor! Bestaande bugs worden niet gefixt, bestaande oplossingen werken niet meer en er komen nieuwe bugs bij. Is dit geen shitterende toekomst voor webdesign?

• Q: if you are ditching "has layout" (or at least trying to), what do you recommend for clearing floats if you don't support :after?
• A: We still have layout, and 'clear' still works.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Layout is geen standaard CSS en de werking van clear is is op zijn minst sporadisch.

• Q: cj asked about clearing floats, will the overflow property be fixed to the extent that it can be used for this as per specs
• A: Not quite sure what you mean, do you have a test case?

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Doof voor bestaande problemen.

• Q: will you have support for "display: table" and table-cell? when moving away from html tables for layouts, these display styles are invaluable to equal heights.
• A: We are not going to have support for the table CSS properties in IE7 but do hope to get to them in a future release. The work we have undertaken in IE7 around CSS is outlined at  IEblog shows significant steps forward to address the key issues web developers are facing. We know we have more work to do in the next release :)

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Vraag MS naar een standaard funktie in CSS en je krijgt als antwoord : wordt aan gewerkt in de volgende versie.

• Q: Can someone explain what the big concern about IE 7's CSS support is, and will features like this be able to be updated (like a plug-in) as new functionality becomes available? I Don't understand why so many people are stuck on CSS 2.
• A: Every update we do to our layout engine (even in the name of standards) will rise concerns about application compatibility. we are trying to mitigate this problem and a good article can be found here:  Cascading Style Sheet Compatibility in Internet Explorer 7

• Q: Can or will IE7 remember when I select "Show Unread" in the feeds, that the next time I load that feed it will always show the unread feed. (Remembering the last setting chosen)
• A: Once you navigate to the feed, all items are considered "Read"

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Alle ander RSS newsreaders doen dit allang!

• Q: i notice microsoft people referring to a page that lists css changes, but this isn't really as good a page as you seem to think. where can we find a complete list of all the css you think you're supporting, so we can test it?
• A: this is an excellent question. We work with the W3C to establish a CSS2.1 test suit to answer exactly that question (+ the same for other browsers)

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Eén van de typische Microsoft afwimpel antwoorden! Wij werken [wil zeggen niet gedaan en komt nooit] samen met [vul hier de naam in van een Standaards Consortium] om een antwoord te vinden [dan moet je wel zoeken].

De volgende uitspraken komen van :
  Microsoft Expert Zone : Internet Explorer (March 9, 2006)

• Q: Have you guys ever made internal IE build where you make everything as W3C compliant as possible? The IE team has said in the past that adding one thing breaks another. How do you you guys find that happy medium between W3C compliance and compatibility?
• A: We are constantly working on improving support. We improve support while taking into account compatibility. As you can see in the article at  IE7 CSS Compatibility we use the strict doctype to allow us to move forward without breaking compatibility.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Heel misleident antwoord!!! (zie de hieropvolgende chat entry voor meer goodies)  W3C Doctypes bestaan in 3 standaard types : transitional, strict en frameset. Microsoft zegt dat als strict doctype gebruikt wordt, MSIE schakelt naar standaards compliant mode. Hiervoor heb ik 3 ommerkingen :

• Voor sommige Doctypes switcht Microsoft naar hun zogenoemde 'quircks' of compatibele mode. Dan doet de browser wat hij goed vindt, met andere woorden, om het even wat! Voor mij zou dat alleen mogen als er GEEN doctype gedefinieerd is.
• 'we use the strict doctype to allow us to move forward without breaking compatibility. Zoals je kan zien, 'to move forward'. Dus als het doctype strict is, dan is dat geen garantie dat Microsoft de regels Strict toepast!
• Geen woord over doctype transitional die ook een standaard is.

Zie hier voor meer over de  Doctype switch

• Q: Is there full support for XHTML 1.1 in IE7? I mean non HTML/TEXT doc types?
• A: XHTML strict is not supported in IE7. That is something for a future release. For IE7 we have concentrated on improving CSS for the platform to give developers a robust set of functionality on which to rely.

• XHTML 1.0: The Extensible HyperText Markup Language
  W3C Proposed Recommendation 10 December 1999
• XHTML 1.0 The Extensible HyperText Markup Language (Second Edition)
  W3C Recommendation 26 January 2000, revised 1 August 2002
• XHTML 1.1 - Module-based XHTML
  W3C Recommendation 31 May 2001

• Q: Is there any chance that you guys will be more aggressive with regards to web standards after IE7? (example: make all Microsoft pages "W3C Standard" so you guys can have the button at the bottom of the page)
• A: Hey Fiery, nice chatting with you (since I usually only see you in the blog). We are absolutely getting more aggressive about standards. Just look what we're doing in IE7! As for MSFT properties being W3C compliant, we don't own those pages so I can't speak for them, but IMHO the most important thing is for the pages to be legible, useful, and look good. Standards help make that happen but strict W3C compliance isn't always worth the effort (think the 80/20 rule).

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Snel deze hier plaatsen voor dat dit verdwijnt van de Microsoft website! Mijn antwoord voor Microsoft : Wij verspelen dagen en weken 'to maak look it good' op een browser die de moeite niet neemt om standaarden te respecteren!

• Q: Please can you clarify the min-height debate? Will it be supported in IE7?
• A: As I understand it, IE previously ignored the CSS property min-height. And inaccurately implemented min-width. For the IE 7.0 we have worked with the CSS committee to accurately implement this feature.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Zou er hoop zijn? Maar eerst zien en dan geloven. Met dit probleem heb ik ongeveer 3 weken kwijtgespeeld bij het maken van PCTECHRES.

• Q: There is alot of errors and bugs in IE7 are you getting round to a solution?
• A: Are there specific errors and bugs you're seeing? We'd love to get feedback at IETell@microsoft.com.

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Dit zou humor kunnen zijn. Als een bug niet specifiek is dan bestaat die niet!

• Q: Can anyone answer the min-height question? Will this be supported in IE7, since it is tentatively supported in IE6 (i.e. height acts like min-height). I know height has been fixed in IE7, but will min-height be supported?
• A: Min-height will be supported in IE7 - but is not currently supported in current builds

PCTECHRES Commentaar : Uit de verschillende postings is het duidelijk dat dit een heel vervelende- en moeilijk op te lossen bug is. MSIE 7 Beta 2 is uit en de BUG IS ER NIET UIT! maar 'will be supported.

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Microsoft IEblog : archive february 2006

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